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The Bomb Was Bound To Burst About Kay Arthur From Precept Ministries International

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Hosea 14:9 Whoever is wise, let him understand these things; whoever is discerning, let him know them; for the ways of the LORD are right, and the upright walk in them, but transgressors stumble in them.

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (6) In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. (7) Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

It has been a concern I have had for a while now.  Many of my lady and male friends on social media such as Facebook, and churches I know in the reformed circles have placed their trust in Kay Arthur as teacher and mentor.  I have been in many conversations over the last couple of years, about Kay Arthur and many times , I was assured, by Christian woman and men,  that she is the one of the best woman’s and children’s teachers out there and can be  and should be fully trusted. We must learn to trust no one , and most important of all test them as Scripture tells us, we cannot place teachers on pedestals as they are all human and bound to fall some or other time. We as mere humans are all fallible. My fears for some time now has been confirmed by the articles below.

Kay Arthur has appeared preaching on the pulpit to men and women.  As we all know the place of a woman is not to usurp authority over men in the church. Yet many have chosen to ignore this.

See my article The BIBLICAL Role Of A Woman

The Apostle Paul makes very clear , what our duty as woman are in the church:

1 Timothy 2:10-15 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness–with good works. (11) Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. (12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. (13) For Adam was formed first, then Eve; (14) and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. (15) Yet she will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Kay Arthur from precept ministries , further  signed the Manhattan Declaration a couple of years ago , and when I was made aware of this some time ago , it put me on guard.  The Manhattan Declaration is a movement of Orthodox, Catholic, and Evangelical Christians for life, marriage, and religious liberty. This movement is nothing but Ecumenical. 

Read why the  Evangelicals and Catholics Together (articles) is not Biblical and cannot and should not be trusted.

And also read why people like John MacArthur did not sign this accord  here: Here are the main reasons I am not signing the Manhattan Declaration . 

John MacArthur was not the only one to speak out against the the Manhattan Declaration. Here is what R C Sproul had to say : The Manhattan Declaration: Why didn’t you sign it, R.C.? . You may also read these  articles,  before I share the latest concern about Kay Arthur ,  Antichrist’s Strategy: Manhattan Declaration by R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur,Richard Bennett, James White, Dr. Steven Dilday, Greg Price, & W.J. Mencarow .

The following below are 2  recent articles placed By  on Nov 15, 2012 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Features, Steven Furtick

TRANSFORM STUDENT MINISTRIES OF KAY ARTHUR’S PRECEPT MINISTRIES TURNS TO STEVEN FURTICK FOR INSPIRATION

Christian Research Network is a sister work of Apprising Ministries. Here CRN Associate Editor Erin Benziger of Do Not Be Surprised… brings to our attention a dubious decision by Arthur’s Precept Ministries to expose their Transform Student Ministries to emerging ecumenical magisterium member and Seeker Driven prophet-leader Steven Furtick.

As I told you in Steven Furtick Bringin’ On Word Faith And The Pastrixes his Furtickism is a very aggressive quasi-Word Faith and Seeker Driven form of evangelicalism that’s actually a co-ed sport as well promoting the unbiblical practice of women in the pastorate.

You need to know that Steven Furtick Calls Joel Osteen A Great Man Of God, Joel Osteen Has Influenced Steven Furtick Longer Than You May Know, Steven Furtick As Televangelist At Lakewood Church Of Joel Osteen and he has even boasted T.D. Jakes Is My Favorite Preacher In The World.

This is certainly not quilt-by-association, it is beyond any reasonable doubt this is quilt-by-endorsement. In fact, it gets even worse for Furtick as his discernment is so far off-track that Prophet-Leader Steven Furtick Descends Down To Word Faith Heretic Rod Parsley. 

Now you have the proper vantage point from which to view the battlefield upon which we find apostatizing evangelicalism. Benziger begins:

Kay Arthur’s well-respected Precept Ministries International (PMI) says that it “exists to establish people in God’s Word using Inductive Bible study.” This is an admirable objective, and one that is greatly needed in a time when the visible church is exhibiting a deplorable lack of biblical literacy and knowledge.

Being such a large organization, PMI naturally operates under various arms, one of these being Transform Student Ministries, which is described as,

the generational equipping arm of Precept Ministries International. Precept Ministries and Transform are dedicated to coming alongside teens, college students, and leaders to establish them in God’s Word. Challenging them to know God and walk obediently. Teaching them to study His Word inductively. Training them to lead others in the power of the Holy Spirit. And providing biblical discipleship through Bible study materials, conferences, seminars, and camps. SOURCE

Knowing the nature and reputation of PMI, then, it may surprise some to discover that its student ministry arm, Transform, has in the past utilized the teaching of Steven Furtick and his book, Sun Stand Still, to encourage and teach followers of its blog.

On 31 October 2011, in a blog entry entitled, “Look in the Mirror and Preach,” the writer, identified only as “Stephanie,” gleaned the following from an excerpt of Furtick’s book:

Look in the mirror and preach. Simply put. Sometimes not so simply done. Different from practicing a sermon, this speech is just for you. No one else. Preaching to yourself is speaking the Word to yourself. It is reminding yourself of truth, as Steven Furtick mentioned above. Not the preaching type? Never fear. All you need is one truth from the Word and different ways to go about your personal Bible pep talk. Let’s expound on Steven’s mirror idea first. I will put it in three simple steps….

In conclusion, whether you preach to the page or to the mirror–staring at your face or at your pen–preach truth in a way that reminds you of the riches God reveals to you. You are His (Jn. 17:6-10). You are fully equipped for every good work through His Word (2 Tim. 3:17; Eph. 2:10). And He delights to hear the words that come through your mouth as you engrain His truth into your life.

SOURCE

“Stephanie” is identified as someone who “has been serving the past couple of years with Transform Student Ministries as a Boot Camp and Conference Staffer. Stephanie was also a part of the Intern Program in 2010.” Interestingly, a search for additional articles by this individual on Transform’s website yields no results.

What is of concern here is the fact that a reputable, ostensibly biblically sound and solid ministry would turn to the work of Steven Furtick, who pastors Elevation Church in North Carolina, for guidance. At the time of Sun Stand Still’s release, Christian apologist Chris Rosebrough offered a skillful critique of the book and of Furtick’s allegorical interpretation of Joshua 10:9–14.

On his radio show, Fighting for the Faith, Rosebrough also has demonstrated on multiple occasions that Steven Furtick tends to preach not only in an eisegetical manner, reading his own ideas into the biblical text, but also in a narcissistic eisegetical manner, reading himself into the text. Rosebrough also recently addressed Steven Furtick’s newest book, Greater, finding that it, too, “utterly fails at rightly teaching God’s Word.”

Additional concerns about Steven Furtick have been raised by CRN General Editor Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries. Silva has provided evidence that Steven Furtick actually has been influenced by Word Faith prosperity preacher Joel Osteen for longer than many may think. Further, Steven Furtick himself has noted his admiration for Word Faith heretic Rod Parsley, whom Furtick has called a “preaching machine.”

Facts like this ought to cause the discerning Christian to approach Steven Furtick’s teachings with caution. Though he is a popular preacher in evangelicalism today, this does not preclude Steven Furtick and his work from being held up to the light and truth of Scripture, which is the Christian’s only authority.

While it is encouraging to note that Transform Student Ministries appears to not have appealed to Steven Furtick’s teachings since this particular blog post, nevertheless this ought to serve as a means of awareness. Teachings which scratch itching ears (2 Tim. 4:3) and the men who perpetuate them are rapidly infiltrating even the more conservative and biblically faithful ministries.

No longer can something be blindly accepted simply because it originates from a particular source. Rather, in these days of compromise, all things must be examined in the light of God’s Word. Let it be our plumb line and our only source of Truth.

Also read this article By  on Nov 16, 2012 in Current Issues, Features

ABOUT KAY ARTHUR OF PRECEPT MINISTRIES INTERNATIONAL

I’ve pointed out many times now that as a general rule, and a courtesy, we do not publish email without the permission of the sender.

At the same time, all email sent to AM and Christian Research Network is considered the property of Apprising Ministries so we may indeed publish unsolicited email for the purposes of edification.

I received the following in response to Transform Student Ministries Of Kay Arthur’s Precept Ministries Turns To Steven Furtick For Inspiration by Erin Benziger, which ran originally at CRN.

With permission in this case I will now offer you the following testimony from my friend Gaylene Goodroad who has been “a Precept leader for five years at a megachurch” in Indianapolis, IN.

Gaylene is currently a member of the Discernment Research Team of Herescope:

Pastor Ken,

I was distressed (but not surprised) to read about Precept Ministries International and their use of Steven Furtick materials to teach teens and college students. I was a Precept leader for five years at a mega church in Indy a number of years ago. I’ve met Kay in person three or four times.

There were several things that began to gnaw at me while leading her bible studies. I attended the Precept national convention in Chattanooga about ten or twelve years ago (I can’t remember the exact year).

There were over 8,000 women in attendance from all across the nation. It was like being at a rock concert. One of the key note speakers at the time was Beth Moore, who had a clear mystical bent way back then.

Ladies were standing in line for upwards of 3 hours to get her autograph, as well a Kay’s. Neither one of these bible teachers put a stop to this, but rather encouraged the “idol worship.”

Through the years, Kay has stepped on teaching platforms with many false teachers–to include Joyce Meyer:

(source)

And Tony Campolo [in 2007 along with Jack Hayford], stating that she will go anywhere she’s asked:

(source)

She’s even appeared at teaching conferences with Len Sweet (2008-09):


(source)

And here:


source)

In 2001, (the day after the 911 attack), my husband and I drove to Texas (Sagemont Church) where she held a bible conference. We were aghast that the church leadership allowed her to preach on a Sunday to the mixed mega congregation (men and women). This is a typical practice for her.

The last straw for me was when she flew to California to schmooze with Mel Gibson in order to help him promote his Roman Catholic movie, The Passion of the Christ. She made an appeal to all leaders to sell this abominable movie to their classes:


(source)

I wrote two exhaustive letters to Kay documenting the serious problems with Gibson’s false gospel and even called her executive assistant at the time to see if Kay would speak to me by phone.

Instead, I got a letter rebuking me for “attacking” another brother in Christ (sounds like Franklin Graham’s objection to calling Mormonism a cult). I returned a letter of resignation.

I haven’t heard Kay or any other evangelical leader who jumped on Gibson’s bandwagon admit that they were wrong, let alone publically repent for leading so many people astray. The bad fruit here is legion.

Mel used some of his profits from Passion ($650 million) to build a Tridentine Roman Catholic compound in Malibu…even hiring his own priest to say the Mass in latin!!! I’m sure that you know the rest from news reports.

I’ve often wondered (and asked Kay in my last letter to her) if any of them had shared the true Gospel with Mel. They accepted gifts from him and were up-close-and-person to him, but never offered him the gift of everlasting life.

Kay is also very close to the Grahams (Billy and Franklin), and has taught (preached???) at The Cove (BGM) many times. Ecumenism is embraced. This is all so very sad. As usual, Erin did a great job.

I expect that she will get some heat for reporting on this as Kay has many followers (both male and female).

Gaylene Goodroad

Further reading

Thank you Ken Silva for permission to place the articles !!!! 

34 thoughts on “The Bomb Was Bound To Burst About Kay Arthur From Precept Ministries International”

  1. Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”

    Matthew 9:35-38 (NIV)

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  2. This is incredible now to read this about Kay Arthur, I was always concerned about her teaching men and now I see that when one disobeys in one thing Satan has a place to put down roots and the plant just grows bigger and bigger until one becomes a false teacher.
    Help me understand this now, was she a Christian? What? Or was she just preaching for profit and never was a believer?? Would love to hear this explained for me, it seems to be getting more and more confusing in these last days about this issue.

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    • “Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”

      Acts 18:24-26

      Liked by 1 person

      • Gary Dennington

        So you are saying you approve of woman teachers on the pulpit ? Timothy was also taught by his Grandmother’s . On the side of my understanding of your verse 26, it says “……………..invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”
        Biblical exposition of this would be as follows :
        and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly; these two doubtless had received a considerable measure of evangelical light and knowledge from the Apostle Paul, during the time of their conversation with him; and as they freely received from him, they freely imparted it to Apollos, with a good design to spread the truth of the Gospel, and to promote it and the interest of Christ in the world: and as on the one hand it was a good office, and a kind part in them, to communicate knowledge to him, so it was an instance of a good spirit, and of condescension in him, to be taught and instructed by them; especially since one of them was a woman, and both mechanics, and made but a mean figure: and from hence it may be observed, that women of grace, knowledge, and experience, though they are not allowed to teach in public, yet they may, and ought to communicate in private, what they know of divine things, for the use of others.

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      • Gary Dennington

        I will rephrase my question , So you are saying you approve of woman usurping authority in the church over men ?

        Scripture clearly teaches : 1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

        I have a couple of good articles about this very subject that have already answered the issue of, women usurping authority in the church over men. Please read them.

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      • Elmarie:

        First, scripture does not give all brothers authority over all sisters in Christ. Specifically it does say in Ephesians 5:21 that we are to ” Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.”

        Second, this passage was originally written by Paul using the Greek language. Here is the correct translation:

        Admin edited removed (incorrect and misleading translation of 1 Timothy 2:12) Warning from admin, we have tolerated your misleading and Biblically unsound comments with great patience, all you future comments of an unbiblical nature will be deleted

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      • Foremost authority within the church lies with the elders. It is from among the elders that those who preach the Word are to come. Here is the biblical requirements for the elders, who are clearly to be MEN, unless the translators got their sexes mixed up. In every passage the word “HE” appears. The descriptive words, such as “overseer”, “manager of the household”, the possibility of being “violent” all indicate that it is of men only that is being spoken.

        I might be wrong, but it seems unlikely that Kay Arthur could be the “husband” of one wife, or how Kay Arthur’s “wife” could be expected to be dignified. It is impossible to understand this passage to be inclusive of women.

        1Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
        1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
        1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
        1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
        1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?
        1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
        1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
        1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
        1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.

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  3. Grannygoose

    Thank you for your comment. to answer your questions, I will say this, We are NOT to Judge a person’s MOTIVES (Matt 7:1), but we ARE to Judge a Fellow Believer’s & Teachers: FRUIT / ACTIONS (Matt 7:15-20, John 7:24, 1 Cor 5:12–13, 1 John 4:1); to make sure they’re NOT Teaching CONTRARY to GOD’S WORD, and that the ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE is CORRECT, for the Protection of Gods People, His Sheep (John 10).

    John 7:24 (NKJV) “Do Not JUDGE according to Appearance, but JUDGE with RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT.”

    Jude 1:1-4 (NKJV) “Jude warns, “Jude, a Bondservant of Jesus Christ (Half Brother of Jesus), and Brother of James— To those who are CALLED, SANCTIFIED by GOD the FATHER, & PRESERVED in JESUS: MERCY, PEACE, and LOVE be MULTIPLIED to you. Beloved, while I was VERY DILIGENT to WRITE to you concerning our COMMON SALVATION, I found it NECESSARY to WRITE to you EXHORTING you to CONTEND EARNESTLY for the FAITH which was once for all delivered to the SAINTS. For CERTAIN MEN have CREPT IN UNNOTICED, who long ago were marked out for this Condemnation, UNGODLY men, who TURN the GRACE of our GOD into LEWDNESS and DENY the only LORD GOD and our LORD JESUS CHRIST.” Read more here http://so4j.com/judging-others-should-christians-judge.php

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    • “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

      Matthew 7:1-2

      Liked by 1 person

      • A few more Biblical instructions regarding how we should judge others. The critical issue in Matthew 7 is not an instruction to abstain from judging others, but to make sure that we DO judge others CORRECTLY.

        1Co 5:12-13 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

        Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

        1 Joh 4:1 “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world”

        Use critical judgment regarding the words of our leaders and teachers. Luke wrote, “Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11).

        1Th 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.

        Act 15:19-20 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things…

        2Co 8:10 And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it.

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  4. Reblogged this on AbbasGirlMe and commented:
    “Kay Arthur has appeared preaching on the pulpit to men and women. As we all know the place of a woman is not to usurp authority over men in the church. Yet many have chosen to ignore this….”

    And Kay Arthur has aligned herself with many false teachers…Joyce Meyer, Leonard Sweet, Tony Campolo, to name a few. THAT in and of itself, belies that she is NOT the solid teacher women and men like to believe that she is. Which “brings to our attention a dubious decision by Arthur’s Precept Ministries to expose their Transform Student Ministries to emerging ecumenical magisterium member and Seeker Driven prophet-leader Steven Furtick….”

    But worst of all, she is a woman who preaches from the pulpit, in direct disobedience to the word of God, Who’s precepts she claims to teach and believe. For me, that has been the bottom line…for you who compromise, perhaps not. And I know that if you disregard that, you will no doubt disregard this warning article and her alliance with know heretics and goats…and that would make you a disciple of Arthur, and not of Christ, so you have deeper problems than who you uphold and follow. The issue becomes that of your genuine salvation. For no one reborn of Christ will ever stand for people like Arthur and the ilk she has continually walked with for very long. Only those who want salvation on their terms will. Sorry, it doesn’t come that way. Heads up Church!

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    • Excellent comment, thank you, Abbasgirlme.

      Is there not a single man at Precept Ministries who is capable or worthy of teaching those dear people in the congregation? It seems to be a shameful, shameful state of affairs.

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  5. abbasgirlme

    Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I am in agreement with what you say, it is very sad to see apostasy of this nature taking place all over the world. Come to think of it , if one looks at what the women pastors and woman priests have achieved by having ta Bible translated on their terms , I am talking about the recent “genderless” Bible that has been embraced by many churches, It makes one sick to the stomach. May God have mercy on them. Feminism has and still is one of the greatest dangers for woman today. Feminism has replaced Christianity; worldly pride and disobedience have superceded humility and submission to God’s will.

    Thank you for reblogging my article 🙂

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  6. What is wrong with you that makes you so bitter and angry? Is it because she is a woman? Why not just call her a witch and burn her like they used to do? OR do you think no one would stand in line to shake the hand of Peter or Paul? I would and Billy Graham too. I know they are human, but they have led lives of service, not perfect sinless lives, but honest servant lives. And maybe some of that service would rub off on me and make me a better person, and a better Christian.

    I believe if you read your Bible, women like Deborah were prophets and counselors. So maybe your issue is with God?

    The reason Christians are scorned today is because we are so busy fighting and stabbing each other that we forget our FATHER GOD has enough love for all.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sheila
      You start off your comment with an insult: “What is wrong with you?” Why would you want to do that? Do you really think that such a comment should be approved or even considered?

      Nevertheless, what is wrong with whomever you are asking the question of, is that he/she is a sinner. That is what is wrong with all people. Sin separates people from God, and Jesus Christ came to reunite and keep to Himself, those whom God gave to Him in eternity. We are not bitter or angry, we are overjoyed and thankful for the Grace of God has been imparted to us for the forgiveness of our sins, through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

      I am a man and I have nothing against women. As a matter of fact, I have always had far more problems with men than I have had with women. Women are perfectly created, I have a perfect wife and a perfect daughter. They are not to teach men from a pulpit. Women who are witches are as guilty of transgressing God’s Word as are men who are Satanically inspired. If we burned false teachers at the stake today, we would probably be liable for an unfair fine, because we would be in contravention of the United Nations’ ridiculous laws against causing unapproved carbon emissions. More importantly, we would also be guilty of transgressing God’s Law as written in Exodus 20:13.

      I would also love to shake the hands of Peter and Paul. I would be honoured to do that with you, Sheila, there as well. I think Paul was the greatest of the Apostles, and the greatest of all preachers, ever. I’m not so sure whether Billy Graham would still like to shake their hands, though. He has said so many things in opposition to the teachings of the Apostles that I have my doubts today.

      Does leading a life of service indicate that one should be saved because of it? Or is one saved because Jesus paid the price for one’s sins fully? Our pitiful service to God does not overshadow Jesus’ perfect sacrifice. Is one saved because one is a servant, or because one is saved by the Grace of God? Do you really believe that one can serve God well enough to convince Him that one should be saved?

      It would not matter at all, how much man-made service rubbed off on you, or me, if God did not first find us worthy of salvation. The only way that God would consider us to be worthy is through the Blood of His Son shed for us at Calvary. Our best deeds and best service are like filthy rags, if they are without Christ (Isaiah 64:6). We cannot be “better” or “worse” Christians by our own means and by our own deeds. Christ paid for all our sins, it has been done, it is finished, we cannot add value to that which Jesus did on our behalf.

      Christians do not fight and stab each other. True Christians love and support each other. The stabbing and fighting which the world sees, is that which takes place between Christians and professing Christians, or between Christians and false converts. It is a just war between those who are saved by the Sovereign Grace of God on the one hand, and those who believe that they can save themselves by way of their own efforts, services and decisions for God, on the other hand.

      The most serious “issue” which all of mankind has, is the issue with God. If we are not saved by God, then we will burn for eternity in hell in separation from God. We cannot do anything about that reality, apart from God. God makes those decisions, because man cannot (Romans 3:11). That is what makes salvation to be the most valuable thing in the life of any man or woman. Salvation is not based on what we can do, or how we can change ourselves, or how we can serve God. It is based on how Jesus already served the Father on our behalf. That alone is what Glorifies God.

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  7. Some questions: Say a woman has information about an issue (for example, Johanna Michaelsen speaking from her past experiences on on occult practices infiltrating the church), and she alone has that information. Are all the men in the congration to be denied that knowledge because it comes from a woman?

    Regarding the “husband of one wife” requirement, are you asserting that single men cannot teach from the pulpit either?

    And does the Bible teach that the pulpit is some special place of authority only open to those with a seminary education and an ordination title?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Teresa Rincon

      I do suggest you go to the teachings in Scripture and be like the Berean’s to see if these things are so. The Bible is clear that ONLY men are to teach. Why do you think Jesus and the Apostles where all men.

      I suggest you read the following articles on this blog : (Type the title into the search bar)

      The BIBLICAL Role Of A Woman

      The Biblical Portrait of Women: Setting the Record Straight

      Women, Prophecy, and Head Coverings

      Women and Work Outside the Home

      God’s High Call for Women

      The Dangers of Postmodernism

      You ask :

      And does the Bible teach that the pulpit is some special place of authority only open to those with a seminary education and an ordination title?

      Yes the Bible does teach that men who lead the flock spiritually are chosen by God and they should uphold what the Bible teaches. The Bible does teach that women are not to usurp authority over men in the church. It has nothing to do with “seminary education and an ordination title” . Be like the Berean’s and search the Scripure to see of these things are so.

      Where there is a body of believers, a pastor should be appointed over them. It is thought by some from 1Ti_5:17 that there were two classes of elders; however, it is certain that this text refers to those who taught the word, for immediately afterward he calls them ‘bishops.’

      Tit_1:6-9. Paul points out the necessary qualifications of pastors other than being called to that office and gifted for that work by the Spirit of God (Act_13:2-3).

      ‘Blameless.’ No man is entirely free from sin or blameless in the sight of God, but the meaning is that he should be a man of excellent reputation among men, a man of honesty, integrity and upright conduct!

      ‘The husband of one wife.’ It is not required that a man be married (Paul was not) or that he should not have a second wife after the death of the first, but one wife at a time! Polygamy and divorce were prevalent at that time. The elder is to be married to one woman only!

      ‘Having faithful children.’ This cannot mean that his children must all be converted, for that is not in the power of any man (2Sa_23:5). The phrase can only intend that they shall be brought up in the principles and doctrines of Christ, and as long as they remain at home they shall be restrained, disciplined and obedient to their parents (1Ti_3:4-5).

      ‘Blameless as the steward of God.’ This refers to his faithfulness in the discharge of his office, faithfulness to his Lord and the trust committed to him (to preach the gospel and feed the sheep, and to those persons under his care).
      ‘Not self-willed’ – not doing things according to his own will, but seeking only the will and glory of God. He is not to be stubborn, obstinate and inflexible.

      ‘Not soon angry,’ but slow to wrath, which shows a man to be one of compassion and understanding. An angry man is not fit to teach others nor to lead the church.

      ‘Not given to wine.’ The pastor is not intemperate in the use of wine and is not addicted to the use of it.

      ‘No striker’ – either with his tongue or hands. He is not a bully nor a harsh person, but gentle and considerate.

      ‘Not given to filthy lucre’ – not greedy of money or possessions. Covetousness and greed are distasteful in any believer, but especially in a minister of the gospel (1Ti_6:6-10).

      ‘A lover of hospitality.’ The elders minister to people; therefore, they must love and be concerned for individuals.

      Their hearts, hands and homes must be open to all men, especially to those of the faith.

      ‘A lover of good men’ – a lover of goodness, of good things and good people, which shows the sincerity of his character.

      ‘Sober,’ or self-controlled and moderate.

      ‘Just,’ righteous and fair in his dealings with others.

      ‘Holy,’ devout toward God, the word and in his personal and private life.

      ‘Temperate’ – in eating, drinking, hobbies and in all things pertaining to the flesh.

      ‘Holding fast the faithful word.’ This is the chief gift and requirement in a pastor. He is chosen principally for the sake of teaching, for the church cannot be governed or taught in any other way than by the word of God! The word is called the ‘faithful word’ and ‘the word which he has been taught.’

      1. ‘The faithful word.’ It is so called because it is the word of God, it is true and it is to be believed! It contains nothing but truth and will not deceive either in its doctrine or promises (1Ti_1:15).

      2. ‘The word he has been taught’ – according to the prophets, Christ and the apostles. We are to teach nothing else for doctrine or in a theoretical way except the word of God (Isa_8:19-20). Opinions, speculation and human logic have no place in the pulpit.

      Sound doctrine and true scriptural preaching will not only edify, exhort and instruct the true believer, but it will at the same time subdue, convict and answer those who are in error and who deny the truth (2Co_2:15-16).
      It is true that pastors, elders and bishops (by whatever name they may be called) are teachers and overseers in the church and should lead the congregation not only by instruction, but by example; but these qualifications, with the exception of ‘apt to teach,’ ought to be characteristics of every believer. Not just our pastors are to be men of godliness, honesty and witnesses of truth, but every believer has, first, a responsibility to glorify God in word and deed, thus adorning the doctrine of God our Saviour, and, second, a ministry to fulfill.

      The issue of Women Preachers is just one of the symptoms of this malaise of the church and so from all sides the word now used is “Post Christian Era”. But here we are dealing with this “cancer” of women preachers in the church. The Bible speaks too clearly on this subject for there to be any confusion. The problem is that churches too often are looking to sources other than the Bible for guidance; indeed they are fully steeped in the tenets of secularism. God loves women as much as He does men. Women are as important to the home, church, and society as men are. In Jesus Christ, women enjoy the same access to salvation and blessings before God as men do. This does not mean, though, there is no difference in men and women in their appearance and roles. There is a basic truth, which needs to be restated in the church and society today: Men and women are different and are not interchangeable!

      Men and women were made for different roles. The New Testament affirms that men are to be the leaders in the home, church, and state. Women were not created to rule these divine institutions; men were. The prophet Isaiah was condemning Israel when he said women ruled over them (Isa 3:12). In the church (and in society), according to the Bible, no woman is qualified to be a pastor or a deacon or in any other leadership position over men for the simple fact that God has made her a woman. Who says that? God says!

      “Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. But I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, was in the transgression” (1Ti 2:11-14).

      “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (1Co 14:34-37).

      How could a woman possibly be a preacher when she is forbidden to teach or to have any authority over men? Women can only be preachers if they openly disobey the Bible’s teaching. Note, furthermore: “if they will learn any thing” which further strengthen the fact that they cannot teach.

      Further, the Lord Jesus Christ appointed no female apostles, nor He personally instructed women. All of them were men. The standards for pastors apply strictly to men. Only a man can be the “husband of one wife” and can “rule his own house well” (1Ti 3:2,4; Tit 1:6). ( above quote by aymon de albatrus)

      Below is one of the best reads I have read, please follow the link below to read full article, that deals with women in the church, it was written in 1559 and remains just as relevant today as in the days gone by. I often find myself in discussion with other women on social media concerning the matter of women as pastors/leaders in the church. More often I am frowned upon by undiscerning women than not , about my strong conviction against any form of women usurping authority over men in the church. I echo the words from the quote above “Women can only be preachers if they openly disobey the Bible’s teaching” . If we as women make a study of Scripture it becomes clear there is only one truth. By digging into the existence of women in the church as teachers, we only need to read what Paul clearly taught in the NT. The influence of Feminism has been immense over many, many ages and women wanting gender equality, it has been fought and won by those who follow the lie that Feminism teaches. Sadly it has had a detrimental effect in the visible church today, to the extend that there is a genderless Bible that is also gaining popularity in the churches that chooses to follow secular humanism rather than the written Word of God. We are sure heading toward a genderless society , as secular humanism is pushing more and more for gender equality in the name of humanism. The Bible is clear that a man and a woman differs and have different roles.

      “Tertullian, in his book of Women’s Apparel, after he has shown many causes why gorgeous apparel is abominable and odious in a woman, adds these words, speaking as it were to every woman by name: ”Do you not know,” says he, “that you are Eve. The sentence of God lives and is effectual against this kind; and in this world, of necessity it is, that the punishment also live. You are the port and gate of the devil. You are the first transgressor of God’s law. You did persuade and easily deceive him whom the devil durst not assault. For your merit (that is, for your death), it behooved the Son of God to suffer the death; and does it yet abide in your mind to deck you above your skin coats?”

      Augustine, in his twenty-second book written Against Faustus, proves that a woman ought to serve her husband as unto God, affirming that in nothing has woman equal power with man, saving that neither of both have power over their own bodies. By which he would plainly conclude, that woman ought never to pretend nor thirst for that power and authority which are due to man. [54]For so he does explain himself in another place, affirming that woman ought to be repressed and bridled betimes, if she aspires to any dominion; alleging that it is dangerous and perilous to suffer her to proceed, although it is in temporal and corporeal things. And thereto he adds these words: “God sees not for a time, neither is there any new thing in his sight and knowledge:” meaning thereby, that what God has seen in one woman (as concerning dominion and bearing of authority) the same he sees in all; and what he has forbidden to one, the same he also forbids to all. [55]And this most evidently yet in another place he writes, moving this question, “How can woman be the image of God, seeing (says he) she is subject to man, and has none authority, neither to teach, neither to be witness, neither to judge, much less to rule or bear empire?” [56]These are the very words of Augustine, of which it is evident that this godly writer does not only agree with Tertullian, before recited, but also with the former sentence of the Law, which takes from woman not only all authority amongst men, but also every office appertaining to man. “ (A quote from ,the First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women)

      Read more here : https://fortheloveofhistruth.com/2012/11/25/the-first-blast-of-the-trumpet-against-the-monstrous-regiment-of-women/#more-5535

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      • Elmarie,
        Thank you for your time and effort.

        I try to welcome the truth in the manner that it is delivered to me and I thank God for my teachers even though I may not recognize them as I encounter them.

        Are you a man or a woman? If you are a woman would you consider petitioning your husband to explain your numerous teachings / corrections offered in this post. If you wish to respond on your own, that is fine as well if you are comfortable with that. Also, are you one of the admins of this site.

        Again, Thank You.
        Drew

        Liked by 1 person

      • drew,

        If you took the time to read the full article you would notice, I do not teach. I simply stated some thoughts in one paragraph in the opening introduction of the article. I also quoted Bible verses in my opening introduction. It was late Pastor Ken Silva who wrote the full length article, his website still standing as referred to at the bottom of the article . I do not think that my gender is of any importance here. I simply re-post articles I read and when feel led to share what I read I will then put it up as an article. I also do not see the relevance to your strange question as to whether I am an admin of this blog, but it is just common knowledge as I am answering your comment. 🙂

        Thank you for commenting here.

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  8. Thank You Grant & Elmarie for standing firm on God’s Truth. “Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world”

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      • I disagree that women are prohibited from being heads of state. Jesus praised the Queen of Sheba for her pursuit of wisdom. Also, the Ethiopian eunuch Philip encountered worked for the queen in his nation as well. There is no indication that he was in sin for being under a woman’s authority.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Teresa Rincon,

        Thank you for your comment. The article does not address anything of a political nature or women as heads of state. The article address woman who usurp authority over men in the church. The Apostle Paul wrote the following :1Tim 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet”. He did not mention the words head of state or Queen of Sheba. I strongly suggest you read and watch this article on our blog The BIBLICAL Role Of A Woman found here : https://fortheloveofhistruth.com/2011/07/12/the-biblical-role-of-a-woman/

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  9. I was browsing for a book and came upon this website. I am a babe in Christ. If I did not experience the love of Christ for me….I think I would run a mile and maybe not call myself ‘a Christian’.
    The world is a hurting place. Do you think what you have to say will make a difference? I just don’t have the time to fully read all this and to debate what is true or not, or if I am been mislead, am I listening to a false prophet Etc. Etc. ?? I do believe Holy Spirit is my guide and teacher. All truth will come from Him …for me and my journey because I am seeking. Would He ‘Holy Spirit’ not lead me and teach me? Let people do what they do. We all will stand before God. Time is precious, I don’t want to get consumed by what all these ‘people’ are doing or not doing and in the name of God. How much time (wasted) was spent doing all this? And for what to make my point, to be heard? to defend my Jesus!? Is God so small He won’t deal with all this? Let’s get out there and LOVE somebody and let our love be the light that reflects Jesus.

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    • Judi

      Christians rejoice when a new babe receives Jesus Christ, and as part of the same body, so do I.

      What we say here will make no difference to the salvation of any person, if that person is not called to faith in Christ. All Christians are compelled to speak the truth and to fulfill their commission by taking the Gospel to all who would hear.

      If you do not care whether you are being mislead, or whether you are following a false prophet, how could you care about giving the truth to others who need to hear the Gospel? How would you answer God when He asks you why you did not give to others the truth of the Gospel through which you were saved? Would you simply pass the blame on to the Holy Spirit?

      It is not optional for the believer, there is no excuse, because we are instructed in Scripture to study His Word:
      (2 Timothy 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      …so that we can understand doctrine, check the truth, correct and instruct ourselves and others:
      (2 Timothy 3:16-17) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

      The Apostle Paul instructs his readers (and therefore also us), to learn and to practice what we have learnt from him and Scripture, so that what we can attain wisdom from Scripture, because we have been given faith through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, and regenerates our dead spirit so that we can understand what we must learn. The Holy Spirit enables us to learn, He does not learn for us or on our behalf, we still have to do the studying.
      (2 Timothy 3:14-15) But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

      You say: “Let people do what they do”, yet Scripture clearly tells us to study to be able to follow God’s instructions and to correct others:
      (2 Timothy 2:24-26) And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

      Would you simply stand and watch when a child is about to run into oncoming traffic, or would you warn them, or better even try to grab them out of the way? Would God expect you to simply stand and watch when a child is about to run into hell, because they have not heard the truth? Don’t you think He will require you to answer as to why you allowed that to happen, while all along you knew the truth?

      You ask: “And for what to make my point, to be heard? to defend my Jesus!?” As we have determined, it is not the duty of a Christian to make their own opinion to be heard, but it is their duty to make God’s point to be heard. Jesus, being absolutely Almighty does not need us to defend Him, but that does not excuse us from doing what He instructs us to do.

      “Is God so small He won’t deal with all this?”
      God will deal with every person, everyone will be accountable to God, including those who did not warn other sheep. Are we not our brother’s keepers? Paul the apostle wrote “And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all” (1 Thess 5:12-15).

      Finally you say: “Let’s get out there and LOVE somebody and let our love be the light that reflects Jesus.” Is there any better way to show love to another than to tell them the truth regarding Christ and salvation, which will not only prove to them that we care for their small physical or emotional needs in this life, but could ensure their eternal life? That is the kind of love that Jesus Himself shows to all sinners for whom He gave up His life.

      By being tolerant of the mistakes and error of others, we do not show them love, we show that we hate them enough to let them be lost for ever. And that is why there are articles such as this, which warn others in love.

      You say you are a babe in Christ. That is wonderful and as I have said, I rejoice in your faith. I pray that once you no longer need milk, and become mature in your faith, that these things become clearer to you.

      Be blessed!

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    • Judi,
      My hope and my prayer for you is that you will grow in sanctification and in discernment. Charles Spurgeon, (The Prince of Preachers) said, “Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right”. It’s when one must say to themselves, “What difference does it make, if a person is saying all of the right Biblical things, if they are doing it in an unbiblical fashion”. Not that Kay Arthur says all of the right Biblical things. She doesn’t. But IF a person does, yet does it in an unbiblical fashion, we must discern that they are not a Biblically sound teacher.

      The more that you read your Bible, the more that the Holy Spirit will reveal these things to you, if you have truly been regenerated and indwelt, by Him. Do some digging in 1 & 2 Timothy. You’ll find that there is much to say there about false teachers and the importance of having right and sound doctrine. I also encourage you not to gravitate only towards the scriptures that speak about love and peace and comfort. Read the whole Bible, for all it’s worth. The scriptures teach some hard truths, that most of us, in our sinful, fallen condition, don’t want to know or hear. Those are the things that reveal the true Holiness of God and the true sinfulness of man and the great chasm between the two. These are important things to know, for the believer. Jesus said some very intense and challenging things, that those who put Him in a little “love box” wouldn’t expect. Here’s some examples that have thrown some new believers, that I’ve pointed them out to.

      “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”

      “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.”
      Matthew 10:34-39

      “You are My friends if you do what I command you”
      John 15:14

      So many want to think that Christianity is about tolerance and is so all inclusive. Those scriptures sound pretty exclusive, to me. Christians are a certain “kind”. A set apart kind.

      Also, did you know that being a Christian is going to make you unpopular and hated by those in the world? Those in your own family, like mentioned above and people that used to be your friends, as well. Also people that you meet along the way. If you are living the Christian life and standing for what God stands for and standing against what God stands against, this isn’t something that “might” happen. It’s GAURANTEED. If you are truly a Christian and you’ve truly been regenerated, this is inevitable. Jesus said so and every true Christian that I know has experienced it. Jesus said:

      “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also.”
      John 15:18:23

      Bottom line, Kay Arthur is not a teacher that I would recommend. There are lots of good teachers out there. John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Paul Washer, Alistair Begg, John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Al Mohler, Ray Comfort, Todd Friel, Matt Chandler. There’s no shortage of good teaching, out there. Thus, there’s no sense in listening to something that is questionable. The only reason to do so, would be to have your ears tickled, as spoken about in 2 Timothy 4:3. I will pray that your salvation is authentic and that you will be sanctified and grow in discernment. God bless.

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  11. The Bible does not say a woman cannot teach. The Scriptures say she cannot have authority over men within the hierarchy of the body or corporal worship, aka, the church. Not big “c” Church, but little “c”, house of God church. The pastoral and deacon qualifications within the place of worship does include being of the male gender. With that said, the Bible does not say women have nothing to offer mixed gender crowds in the capacity of learning about God’s Word. God used Rahab, a harlot, for His good purpose and His glory. Priscilla helped her husband teach others about the gospel. The original Greek word tense of the phrase “to teach” implies a continual leadership capacity within the church, in other words, a pastoral position. Paul also said women must be silent in church. Does that mean women are not permitted to lead a VBS class, sing special music, make announcements during Sunday morning service? Say, “amen!”?

    Liked by 1 person

    • mrsjacks1181

      In today’s post-modern society with women’s liberation movements world wide it is not correct for us to agree with and adhere to the world, but to follow our Lord’s instructions. The teaching of the Apostle Paul spells it out so clearly in his words in 1Tim 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet”. Often I have encountered women who say that this verse indicates to them that women should be reduced to being pregnant and in the kitchen, and be a slave to her husband although this is not at all what Scripture tells us. It is my prayer that these short clips bring joy and peace to the hearts of those women who do not understand this teaching. Blessings in His name.

      The vast majority of feedback that I have received on this vid is very, very positive. It is amazing that the ones who try to refute this film claim as their “proof” –
      1. Extra-biblical sources
      2. The Bible is “wrong”
      3. Church history over the Word of God
      4. Personal feelings.
      5. The N.T. “Days” of “spirit vs. flesh” supercedes or abrogates the the very writings of the N.T. itself! (What a godless argument – yet, I receive it from “women preachers” all the time) Unbelievable.

      NO ONE has given a single instance of in-context Biblical refutation. NO ONE!

      See more here – The BIBLICAL Role Of A Woman – https://fortheloveofhistruth.com/2011/07/12/the-biblical-role-of-a-woman/

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    • mrsjacks1181

      With that said, the Bible does not say women have nothing to offer mixed gender crowds in the capacity of learning about God’s Word.

      This circular reasoning makes no sense. The Bible says women are not to teach men. Period. Mixed crowds, by their nature include men, therefore women should not teach there. Period. For what reason would one want to challenge God’s clear instruction? It is unnecessarily risky to try to adapt God’s Word to fit more comfortably within human / denominational / local church reasoning. Leave it alone, God’s Word is complete and perfect as it is.

      Paul also said women must be silent in church. Does that mean women are not permitted to lead a VBS class, sing special music, make announcements during Sunday morning service? Say, “amen!”?

      This reasoning is based on a few false premises:
      1) Firstly, the Bible does not instruct us to have VBS classes, whether in the church or anywhere else.
      2) Secondly, special singing would not include man-made hymns and prescribed songs, but rather it would be solely due to the urgency of God’s Spirit, not a choir master or praise and worship team, and that goes for both genders,
      3) Thridly, special announcements have nothing to do with Scriptural teaching, and the pastoral / teaching service should never include such trivia,
      4) Finally, when we say “Amen!” it need not be spoken out loud, after all it is a prayer and God does not need to hear our voices to know what is in our thoughts and hearts. Speaking the word out loud for all to hear could be seen as simply drawing attention to one’s self, whether man or woman. It can also be disruptive, rather than unifying if done in such a manner as has become commonplace in many congregations. Neither does Scripture instruct us to make such exclamations anywhere. Those things are man-made traditions.

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